Just as he did in September last year, Pitso Mosimane dived deep into unchartered waters when it was announced that he would be taking his treasured coaching talents to the United Arab Emirates by joining Al Wahda, just days after parting ways with Al Ahli Jeddah. He not only led his most recent club to promotion to the Saudi Arabian topflight but managed to win the league in just nine months. The 58-year-old's decision came as a surprise as he had called a press conference just hours earlier to announce the official launch of his Pitso Mosimane Soccer Schools, where he made no mention of his move. In Part 1 of his intriguing interview with Soccer Laduma's Delmain Faver, the man nicknamed "Jingles" talks about the latest project he has undertaken, why the ambitious club ticked all the boxes for him, his challenge with signing South African players since his departure from the country, and more…
Delmain Faver: Coach, as you must be aware, Soccer Laduma recently had an interview with your agent and wife Moira Tlhagale. She mentioned that a project was of utmost importance to you when considering your next move. What was it about Al Wahda that made you sign on the dotted line?
Pitso Mosimane: Al Wahda is one of the biggest teams in the Emirates, a big team. There is a big region of Wahda. They are a big club. Look at the history, they've won this league before… four times. But it has been maybe more than 10 years that they haven't won the league, so it's a project. So, what's the project for us? We want to win the league. They came third, so my question is, what made you come third? What's the difference between you in third and the team that finished first? It is probably the quality of the players, it's probably the commitment of the players or management or something. We don't know because when the team doesn't win the league, there is a reason because football is about tactical, technical management, the mentality, how far do you want to go for it? Because no matter how much money the team can spend, if you don't have the players that want to win the league, you can't win it! And if you don't have players who have the ability to win the league, you won't win the league. So, we need to diagnose the whole thing and see what the whole thing is, and that's my job when I get there. I need to know. The management must tell me because they will say, "This is the good things that we have done, maybe there were mistakes here." The players must tell me why they haven't won the league. Why did you finish third? And let's look into those things that made you come third because you won many games to come third. So, what have you been doing right? Let's diagnose it.
DF: Makes sense.
PM: Football coaching is not about knowing the 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 or "I'm a smart coach, I can play this system." To win is more than just the tactics. You can be the best coach with tactics and we all know you are a top coach, but you don't win because the mentality of the players is not right. They don't want to play for you. They don't want to play for the team. The players are not sleeping or eating right. Maybe you don't communicate well with the players, you know what I'm trying to say? And also, maybe you need time. You need two years to win the league. Does your team have time for that? Do they want to build towards that? So, it's more than the talent of the coach to win. That's why you see (Carlo) Ancelotti… Is he a good coach or not? You can argue. I know how many times he's won the Champions League, I know how many leagues he's won. And then you can say, "Oh, but maybe Pep (Guardiola) is better than him in tactics." Probably right. But why has he won more Champions Leagues? Maybe he relates to the players better. Maybe everything matches at the time. There's so many things. Why is Champions League so difficult to win? If it was easy, everybody could win it. How many do we have in the country? Two – (Orlando) Pirates and (Mamelodi) Sundowns. If it's easy, why don't you win it? Akere you talk? Put the trophy on the table. We keep quiet. Don't ever go overboard because sometimes you do everything right as a coach but the ball hits the guy and you have a penalty against you and lose the match. Do you say the coach is not good? You get a deflection or score an own goal. That's why it takes more than the talent of the players, it takes more than talent of the coach, it takes more than what the management supports and gives. It takes more than that. There's so many things that has to go right, then you can win.
That's why Pep says this thing (Champions League) is very difficult to win. He's got the players, but he hasn't won it for how long? How long did it take Jurgen Klopp to win it? I won it after two years with Sundowns. After that, I never won it for the next five years. So, if it was easy, why didn't I win it all the time? It's difficult. Why hasn't Pirates won it in so many years? Why could Kaizer Chiefs not win it? Because it's not an easy thing, guys. It's a very difficult thing. When I arrived in Al Ahly, Egypt, they hadn't won it for six years. So, if it was easy, they would have won it all the time. Okay, now we have found something, we found the rhythm, we found the specimen, we found the right energy. We brought the players' mentality. (We said) we can win this thing, don't worry about the group stages. We're gonna lose one here and there. The end product is what talks. The process is always wobbly. I saw Real Madrid lose to Sheriff in the group stages and (they) won the Champions League. You must also understand you are playing league games, you are playing cup games, you are traveling, so sometimes it's not very easy to do that. That's why you have to respect the people even when they win the local league. It's very difficult and Sundowns won it, but they travel all the time. It's not easy. So, follow the route that they are going in and come and win the league. Let's see if you have the right players, the right mentality, the right training programme because it's also about training. How do you train when you travel? So, we've been in this thing for the last 10 years, we know it. You are a rookie, you are just coming and you are excited. You don't know what this thing is, and that's why some European coaches struggle to win this thing in Africa.
DF: Seems like an intricate process…
PM: I was in Europe recently. I travelled from Greece to France now, it was three hours. So, when Panathinaikos play PSG, it's three hours. Al Ahly travel from the North to play Sundowns, how many hours overnight? It's difficult for Al Ahly, it's difficult for Sundowns – it's difficult for both teams. That's why the Champions League is one of the most difficult cups to win more than the European cups. That's my opinion. When are you travelling? When are you playing? You've got a midweek game. It's not easy.
DF: Coach, it is your third team outside of South Africa now, but you've only signed one Mzansi player and…
PM: (Interjects) Yeah. Percy Tau, a top player. I always say that he is the best player in Africa, and you can say no… and you need to argue with me. Who's the champion of Africa? So, why is he not the best? Everybody said, "Oh, you took him to Al Ahly." Did you see the trophies he won with Al Ahly? How many did he win with Brighton? He was never even in the team! Is he getting short-changed financially? He's earning the same or more, and that's why I made sure that Percy is proper, everything is right with him. And you can judge me to say, I left him there. I brought him to play in the Club World Cup against Flamengo. What are you saying to me? I'm bringing him to play against Real Madrid, are you serious? When is Brighton gonna play Real Madrid?
DF: What's the challenge with signing SA players?
PM: It's very difficult with South African players and I don't like to go too much (into that topic) because they take it personally. They know I'm outspoken, I say what I think. Team owners will start to think u Pitso manje (now) is creating problems, ubafaka umoya (he is gaslighting our players). With my country, I want to come back home one day, but I know what happens in Zambia, Uganda, Cameroon. I signed a player from Gambia, no problem. The team owner speaks, yes, but the boys get money, the family gets money, the player plays. In South Africa, it's not easy. And we always blame the players when they retire, they don't have money – but he was living hand-to-mouth. The Africans, they make a lot of money, and it doesn't mean that we don't have a product and also the teams can benefit. But the synergies have to be there. We need to share the same vision and maybe I want to come back home and coach here, so I don't want to burn bridges. What I know, I keep to myself. That's why I always say if the player wants to talk to me about where he can make money, he must go to Thulani Serero, Dino Ndlovu, Steven Pienaar, Benni McCarthy. They have made money. Go ask them how you make money as a football player.
DF: The Gauteng MEC of Education, Matome Chiloane, delivered what appeared to be very shocking news, saying they were preparing a school for you, where you could hopefully have a replica of, if not better than, the School of Excellence.
PM: The cake is too big. Go to Holland. Look at the population. It's a small country. There's Feyenoord, Ajax Amsterdam, PSV, there's everything, but why are they producing players? Why did Feyenoord produce (Robin) van Persie? Why does Ajax produce all these players? PSV produces top players who are playing in the Champions League, in the big leagues. What population do they have? Croatia, what population do they have there? Maybe 4 million? How many do we have? 60 million. So, how many Schools of Excellences can we make? 20! So, the cake is too big because the School of Excellence cannot take all the children. There's spill-offs, there's late bloomers, there's ones who did not attend the trials because he was sick or because the parents didn't take him to the trials (but) he's better than what you have there, so we need to give opportunities to almost every child. So, I'm humbled by the MEC of Education for doing that. We have to come to that point and then we can put the proper structures in place. But we are ready, we have coaches, the product is there, the players are there, it's in the township or wherever. I don't care where you put the schools, football players are there. They love to play football, so that's non-negotiable. So, it's for us to go into the schools, set up structures. And it is a boarding school also – it's beautiful. One day, I'll be saying to South Africa, "Give me top 13-year-olds in your village." Give me those players, let's put 60 together, let's put 100 together. Let's cut this number. You can never ever tell me that out of those players, we will all play them in the Premier League. Some will go to the UK, some will go to Italy, some will go to the Middle East, some will play for Chiefs, some will play for Pirates, some will play for Chippa (United). The cake is too big! The Middle East is so broad that many African players are in the Middle East, and why don't we have South African players there? We have the product. I look at the teams in the league and I think this player will walk here and he will earn so much money, but you know the problem also is players are not easily released in South Africa, and the expectations when you say I want to play outside… and also the players sign five-year contracts, so they can't move, and the owner of the team says I want R10 million if you want to go overseas. But Patson Daka is playing for Leicester City, how much was paid to Zambia? But if he was playing in South Africa, he would have cost R10 million or R20 million, he's not going anywhere. But he's playing for Leicester now.
