Roger de Sa has been away from the South African game for a while now, with experiences as number two to Carlos Quieroz in the national teams of Egypt, Iran and Qatar. After leaving Qatar, De Sa has been back in the country since the start of the year, taking a bit of a break before making a return to coaching. While there is nothing concrete on the table in terms of offers from clubs, the 59-year-old's experience of coaching abroad over the last few years could open doors for opportunities in the PSL next season. Soccer Laduma's Tshepang Mailwane got hold of the former Orlando Pirates coach to talk about what he has been up to since returning to South Africa and what his plans are for the future.
Tshepang Mailwane: Hello coach, it's great to be chatting to you after a long time. How are you doing and what have you been up to since returning to South Africa?
Roger de Sa: Life has been good. I came back in January. I had a good time and great experiences, but it's always good to be back home with family and friends at my house. Home is home. I have travelled to different countries over the last four years, so it's good to be back. At the moment, I have been busy with business, a little bit of property, like getting them ready to become AirBnbs. I am entertaining myself, keeping myself busy and planning a bit for the future.
TM: Let's talk about your business and properties before we speak about what the future holds for you in coaching. Why has it been important for you to have something to provide for you outside of coaching?
RDS: I come from a generation where we used to work and play. A lot of us had jobs and we had to play. It was always better to have that comfort and that security, number one. And secondly, the businesses are good for the future and for extra income. It keeps your mind occupied. There are a lot of positives, and it does not put your hands tied up. You have a little bit of freedom, and you think with a clearer mind as well. You are not thinking with a rope around your neck all the time. You are making better decisions. That's very important.
TM: In terms of coaching gigs, have you been applying, or have you received offers?
RDS: I'll be honest with you. I've been lucky in a sense that I have never looked for work. All my life, as a player and a coach, I have never applied for a job. Somehow the jobs have come to me, and I have always been able to choose if it's the right project or not. Even now, there has been interest from all over the world actually, but right now I am back in Cape Town, and I am enjoying being back and I'll see what happens. When I got back, I knew that I would take six months out, at least, concentrating on my other businesses. It's important to have a good break and freshen up, especially if you have been away from home like I have. There were a lot of hotels, a lot of flights and long distances. It's nice to be settled and it's nice to be able to plan what you are doing for the weekend with friends and family. You do miss the game, for sure, and I will get back to work. If something comes in the new season, even if it's a local schools' U-10 team, I don't mind. If it's a project that excites me and that I feel good about it, then I will take it on. I am in a good position to choose what I want to do. If I want to go back and tour the world and take up another challenge, then I will do it. That experience was good in all three countries (Egypt, Iran and Qatar). The World Cup and the Africa Cup of Nations…all these experiences have been great.
TM: You worked for the national teams of Egypt, Iran and Qatar. Did these countries ever try to appoint you as head coach outside of Carlos Quieroz not being there?
RDS: Yes, there were options. But I think my commitment and affiliation to Carlos and the technical team was stronger than for me to stay. Right now, if I go back to Qatar, it could be an option. But I was never going to break away from that technical team and turn my back on them. No, I would not do that. Now, if it came up on an individual basis, then yes. I have had contact and offers, from all three countries. But it was not the right time and right decision at the time.
TM: Just to confirm, was this for head coaching positions with these countries?
RDS: Yes.
TM: So, why would you say you are now ready to break away from the technical team (led by Quieroz)?
RDS: Because now I am out of contract. I am not connected. It's over, it's finished. But I would not break the contract at the time. I've only been an assistant to Carlos Quieroz and no one else. Even when I started coaching. I went straight into a head coaching job. And my title, when I worked with Carlos, has always been 'first team coach'. For some reason, he has never given me the assistant title and he has never made me feel like an assistant. He just works above everybody. He has a different way of handling it. He allowed me to coach as much as I wanted to, and he would step in at the right time. I was able to carry on with my coaching duties all the time.
TM: Since you've been away from PSL football for a while, what do you think of the quality of the league at the moment?
RDS: I've been watching quite a lot of games down in Cape Town. I see some improvement in some areas and then in other areas it's still the same or it's gotten even worse. I've also noticed that there is quite a big gap between clubs as well. There is also the worry about the crowds. The crowds are not as dominant as they used to be. We had much bigger crowds before. I think (Mamelodi) Sundowns have run away from everybody, which is quite sad. It's good for Sundowns, but it's sad for the rest that have not been able to keep up. But then it's nice to see teams like Stellenbosch developing their own brand and system and academy. It's been quite impressive and it's good for the game. Sometimes I look at the condition of the fields. We don't water the grounds before the matches, and I don't know why. Those are things you learn overseas. The pitches are immaculate. Those are the things that we have not really kept up. But the game itself is not bad. Our coaches have gotten better, but we could still do better.
TM: If you were to get a job in the PSL, what would you bring that's different to what we saw from you previously?
RDS: I certainly hope I have learnt along the way. I've worked with some very good players, and I've played against some good countries. You learn as you grow. But I am the same person. I still have the same temperament, the same mentality and same beliefs. But obviously they have all been refined. With age, I think we do get better in a lot of ways. If you want to get a soldier, you want to get a soldier that's been to war, isn't it? Not a soldier who has been in the boys' scouts. You want a soldier who has been to war. I like to believe that I come back with some knowledge and there is also the other side of having to catch up with the local game. If I wanted to work here, I would have to spend a lot of time catching up with players' names and trends and everything else. But it's no different when I go from one country to another.
TM: Having reached the CAF Champions League final with Orlando Pirates in 2013, why do you think it's been difficult for Sundowns to get there since they won it in 2016?
RDS: First of all, no one has a divine right to win it. It's going to be a battle for everybody. Those clubs are good, hardened teams. They are tactically good. When I was at Pirates and we made it to the final, I think the fact of being an unknown gave us an edge. A lot of the teams didn't really know us as well as they know Sundowns now. We were a little bit of an unknown and maybe we surprised a few people because of our style of play and the way we took them on. With Sundowns now, they are a recognised team all over Africa. Maybe that makes it a little bit more difficult for them. But having said that, they have the resources and the squad. They do have a lot of extras that we didn't have, like chartered flights. We went on just the normal flights. We were thrown into the back of a flight and that was it. I am sure they go charter, and they have a better pick of hotels and everything, because they have more experience in this competition now and they want to win it. They reached the semi-finals and that's no embarrassment. If you lose to Esperance, it's not an underachievement. I still believe they have represented us well. I think the breakthrough will come.
TM: Moving on…would the project at Kaizer Chiefs ever interest you?
RDS: It's difficult for me to say. Like I'd say 'would you consider Real Madrid?' Of course I would. But I think you need to sit down and talk. You have to sit in front of the people who want to employ you, and you have to see if your ideas and their ideas are in some kind of synergy. Otherwise, you are just going into a dead end, which is not ideal for either party. You can say 'yes, I am going'. But after the first conversation, you go 'wow, we are on totally different lanes'. Like I said to you earlier, it could be a team in the (English) Premier League or it could be the U-10 local school team. If the principal of the school talks a good story to me and he has a dream and a vision that I think I can contribute towards, then let it be. As long as it's the right project and it excites me. I need to work where it excites me. Egypt was super exciting. Going with Iran to the World Cup was fantastic. Then going to work in Qatar after Iran was another exceptional opportunity. Those things have all come at the right time and vision. It does not matter who it is. Some people have asked me about Swallows. Everyone has an opinion, but if it's the right thing and we agree on everything we want to achieve, then I am ready to get to work. I have had some contact from contacts outside South Africa, but I have to weigh those up and be careful if that's what I want to do. Do I want to be away from home? No. I belong here, but we will see.
TM: Thank you so much for your time, coach. Good luck and we hope to see you back on the bench coaching soon.
RDS: Thank you.
